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Richard Cotterill
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Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 107
Location: United Kingdom
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 Posted: Mon 26 Feb, 2007 13:15 Post subject:Teovel Grouping |
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Hi Wilson. Question. What is your understanding of why are there 5 groups in the Balintawak system and not 3 or 6 etc. And do you encourage the student/instructor to evolve on the existing groups as developed by Villasin and Velez.
Thanks.
Richard
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malcolmk
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Location: coventry uk
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 14:06 Post subject:additional groupings |
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Just out of interest I know that GM Nick Elizar has introduced 2 more groups taking his Nickelstick total to 7.
Group 7 is use of the head but I can't remember what 6 is at the moment.
Nick of course is from the Teovel lineage.
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Pike
Site Admin
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Heanor Chapter Derby UK
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| Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 06:44 Post subject:Groups 6 & 7 |
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Hi malcolmk
Very interested to see hear about these groups 6 &7 
is there anything written, photos or clips anywhere on the net
Ihave heard that in the New Guardians of the Legacy book
that is out this year a group 6 is actually in the edition
Best Regards
Pike
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malcolmk
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Location: coventry uk
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| Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 11:22 Post subject:group 6 & 7 |
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As far as I know there are no vids or pics yet. This is just something that came up in conversation during my last visit Sep 2006, I am there again soon (end April) so I will ask some details, see if I can get some preview pics.
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Wilson R. Ceniza
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat 10 Mar, 2007 03:43 Post subject:Re: Teovel Grouping |
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| Richard Cotterill wrote: | Hi Wilson. Question. What is your understanding of why are there 5 groups in the Balintawak system and not 3 or 6 etc. And do you encourage the student/instructor to evolve on the existing groups as developed by Villasin and Velez.
Thanks.
Richard |
Hello Richard,
First of all the grouping figures represents the “what ifs” question, that is to train the student on how to react possible holds employed by the opponent, lightning-attacks, counter-attacks, fake movements or if the opponent was controlling over you.
The Teovel Balintawak teaches the five clustered forms of action defense and counter in preparation for the next lesson which is the cuentada, in our club we named it as Master’s degree level.
Five groupings is a complete learning to start for the cuentada lessons, although others are making it six or seven but for us five groupings is suffice.
Regards,
Wilson |
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Mono
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Neustadt / Germany
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| Posted: Thu 28 Feb, 2008 15:15 Post subject: |
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Just want to add to the above Discussion on the Nickelstick Groupings...
They are taught as follows:
a. Group 1 - Familiarization of Lifting and Clearing with the Different Variations
b. Group 2 - Familiarization of Clearing and Butting Defense and Variations
c. Group 3 - Familiarization of Thrust Defense & Proper Body Movements
d. Group 4 - Familiarization of the Abanico or Fan Strike Defense & Variation
e. Group 5 - Familiarization of Punching and Butting Defense & Variation
f. Group 6 - Familiarization of Elbowing and Head-Butting application
g. Group 7 - Familiarizawww.youtubetion of Kicking and Foot Sweeping/Tripping Application
Nick is teaching different Variations within each Group that are very similar to the ones Bobby Taboada teaches...
The 6th Group is based on the 5th but using the Elbow and Head for Attacking.
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3HSNxmo_A
Shows most of the Variations of the Nickelstick Basic Training curriculum.
5th Group starting at 1.29
One Variation of 6th is at 1.50 (elbow)
7th is not shown...
Greetings from Germany!
Philipp "Mono" Wolf
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Pike
Site Admin
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Heanor Chapter Derby UK
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| Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2008 07:12 Post subject: |
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| Mono wrote: | Just want to add to the above Discussion on the Nickelstick Groupings...
f. Group 6 - Familiarization of Elbowing and Head-Butting application
Nick is teaching different Variations within each Group that are very similar to the ones Bobby Taboada teaches...
The 6th Group is based on the 5th but using the Elbow and Head for Attacking.
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Hi Mono
Very interested to hear more on the group 6 sounds very close quarter
can you give more info or is there You Tube footage.
Or can you give a few more indepth feature on this group for me anyway
Thanks for your time 
Best Regards
Pike
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garrotista
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Location: CA, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed 23 Apr, 2008 03:06 Post subject: |
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| Mono wrote: | Just want to add to the above Discussion on the Nickelstick Groupings...
They are taught as follows:
a. Group 1 - Familiarization of Lifting and Clearing with the Different Variations
b. Group 2 - Familiarization of Clearing and Butting Defense and Variations
c. Group 3 - Familiarization of Thrust Defense & Proper Body Movements
d. Group 4 - Familiarization of the Abanico or Fan Strike Defense & Variation
e. Group 5 - Familiarization of Punching and Butting Defense & Variation
f. Group 6 - Familiarization of Elbowing and Head-Butting application
g. Group 7 - Familiarizawww.youtubetion of Kicking and Foot Sweeping/Tripping Application
Nick is teaching different Variations within each Group that are very similar to the ones Bobby Taboada teaches...
The 6th Group is based on the 5th but using the Elbow and Head for Attacking.
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3HSNxmo_A
Shows most of the Variations of the Nickelstick Basic Training curriculum.
5th Group starting at 1.29
One Variation of 6th is at 1.50 (elbow)
7th is not shown...
Greetings from Germany!
Philipp "Mono" Wolf |
'Nong Monie Velez's standard palakaw/Grouping curriculum is similar to GM Nick's.
The exceptions are:
- Group 5 includes snatching/disarm defense.
- there is no Group 6 and 7.
The elbows and head butt techniques are inserted in the 12 strikes palakaw, then Groups 1 to 5
The kicking, sweeping/tripping techniques are also inserted in the 12 strikes palakaw, then Groups 1 to 5.
As the student advances in the curriculum, the 'old/original' Balintawak teaching method of SANAx2, and MARAx2 is covered. SANAx2 is when techniques are applied / defended / countered by the feeder and reciever. MARAx2 is sparring. The palakaw/Grouping curriculum was always intended as preparatory training for the 'old/original' Balintawak teaching method of SANAx2, and MARAx2..and not to replace it.
Most of my training with Nong Chito, and Eddie was SANAx2. However, they follow the standard palakaw/Grouping curriculum.
The Velez bros were the 1st students of the palakaw/Grouping curriculum. Their father, GM Teofilo Velez & GM Atty. Villasin would use the bros to "test" the effectiveness of the palakaw/Grouping...and, Manong Anciong agreed!
To Mono, and other Nickelstick players:
Manong Monie & his brothers practice in the same area in Ayala park as GM Nick, every Sunday a.m.. Please stop by, I'm sure GM Nick would be happy to introduce you  Maybe, by chance, I'll meet some of you on this forum in Cebu training..&/or partying beware at PUMP disco. |
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free2flow
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Fri 25 Apr, 2008 09:24 Post subject: |
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| garrotista wrote: |
As the student advances in the curriculum, the 'old/original' Balintawak teaching method of SANAx2, and MARAx2 is covered. SANAx2 is when techniques are applied / defended / countered by the feeder and reciever. MARAx2 is sparring. The palakaw/Grouping curriculum was always intended as preparatory training for the 'old/original' Balintawak teaching method of SANAx2, and MARAx2..and not to replace it.
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Garrotista good to hear from you here  Thanks for the info.
I agree, you will begin to appreciate the things taught in the Grouping when you reach the SANA-SANA and MARA-MARA stages and of course when you "agak" somebody. On the other hand, the benefit/effectiveness of the Grouping is greatly diminished if:
1. it's not "fully" understood and
2. it's not taken to the succeeding and intended levels (SANA-SANA and MARA-MARA).
And that's where the guidance of a good Teovel instructor is really important.
Garrotista, hope we could train again here in US or in Cebu. Please say hi to Monie the next time you talk to him . |
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malcolmk
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Location: coventry uk
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| Posted: Fri 09 May, 2008 02:43 Post subject: |
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I think that the groupings in themselves are of value as coordination / reaction training and it is only when the groupings are broken down into segments and even joined with segments of other groupings that the true value appears.
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